How BDSM Roles Help You Connect Without Boxing You In | S5 EP141 (FLASHBACK EP)

Labels can feel like boxes until you realize they’re also doors. We get real about BDSM roles and kink labels like Dom, sub, switch, top, bottom, and “right side of the slash,” and why those words can make it easier to find compatible partners without pretending a profile tag tells the whole story. I’m opinionated here: if you’re using labels to make snap judgments, you’re doing it wrong. If you’re using them to start better conversations, you’re on the right track.

We break down the difference between role play and an ongoing power dynamic, because those get mixed up constantly. Role play can be a character for a scene, while a dynamic can be a longer-term structure that depends on negotiation, boundaries, and clear consent. We also talk about how labels shift over time as you learn, try new things, and grow, and why expecting someone to stay the same forever is a setup for disappointment.

Then we go straight at the biggest problem: assumptions. A label is not a standing invitation, not a contract, and not a mind reader. We argue for one simple habit that improves everything in kink and relationships: ask what it means to them. If you’ve ever felt seen by a word like demisexual, or found community through shared language, you’ll recognize how powerful the right terms can be when they’re used with respect.

If this hits home, subscribe on your platform, share it with a friend who needs the “ask questions” reminder, and leave a review with stars so more curious people can find us. What label do you wish people would stop assuming things about?

1/6/26

1/6/26

Transcript

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Welcome Back And Today’s Topic

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Welcome back to Around the Kinky Campfire, the Pillow Fort Sessions. This is your host, Mister Cuttle Gigolo. Putting your mister on there, it's official now. AK El Comidine. No. Or just H H Julius, your entertainment current c your entertainment creative here. To once again give you a short little episode of the Pillow Fort sessions going on for about 30 minutes or so, talking about a specific topic that's a little bit different than what we do on the main episode. Trying to fill you guys in. In the meantime, in between episodes and all that, there. So wanted to talk to y'all about roles and labels. Just gonna get straight into it. I do have a drink with me. So do the little ASMR five seconds. It's a uh Celsius Arctic vibe, not sponsored. All right, you can count a three, two, one. Delicious. Okay, let's get down into it. Why do I want to talk about roles and labels? Everybody always asks why people have different names. What is the point of all this? And um, some people are against roles

Why Labels Can Actually Help

SPEAKER_00 2:39

and labels, and I think that's kind of interesting as well. Is like, why would you not want to name something and as your resident resident, as your resident uh robot slash nerd on all these things? I actually enjoy enjoy labels and roles and what we call them and all that stuff. Because you know, labels are an identity, also. You know, I think I mentioned this before. I like cosplaying and dressing up as well. So many different options. Why not go around and see what works for you, what doesn't work for you, all that in between. So it's interesting when people are like, I don't like labels. It's like, yes, they are kind of like a confining. I don't know what you yeah, confining, limiting, that type of thing. But my thing is labels are a like jumping off point, they don't just limit you, like Kinkster or Lifestyler. It's like that's part of who I am, that's not the whole picture. So, yeah, I'm definitely one of the persons that goes on to Fed Life, uh, especially in the before times. Back in my day, you could only choose one username and you have to stick with that, otherwise, you have to like create a new profile, and you only got one role. Now, we talked about this before, uh, but you have plenty of roles and plenty of labels now that you can put on your profile. I'm glad that they updated that so you can do that and you can change your username like once every three months or so now, um, currently. And it's nice to be able to add those nuances on there. You are limited to only five, because I understand there's most of us out there, definitely myself included, wouldn't would have like 10 or 20. Because yeah, it gives you an idea, and it's like, I don't know what those all those words mean, but yeah, that that that's an interesting person there. For me, I know I like to do the research for all the different names and stuff, and I got the files and all these different shared things where uh share files, websites, whatever you want to call it, where they define all the labels and roles. I'm not gonna do that today because there's just so many, but I have them say for

FetLife Profiles And Nuance

SPEAKER_00 4:48

myself. So I know the ones that I have on my profile and what they mean, but yeah, there's there's a bunch of stuff all the time. And we did that little fun episode where we went through some of them. But uh ever since then, I've always wanted to talk about uh what roles and labels uh definitely what they mean to me, but just in general, as y'all know in the Pillar Ford sessions, I get right down into the nitty-gritty, the definitions and the scientific background behind all of it, and then also get the information out there, use it if you want. Uh, don't listen to me, but then you know, do your own research, that that type of thing. Um, see what works for you and why you like it. I definitely, like I've said uh like a minute ago, labels are an identity, but they are not um restrictive as far as I'm concerned. It's like, oh, you're into that, maybe we have that in common, that type of thing. It gives gives you something to talk about. Like, especially if you're you know on the right side of the slash, the bottom sub, whatever you want to call yourself. It's like you probably don't want to get in a relationship with another bottom sub, right side of the slash in general. This is definitely a generalization, but it's like you're probably looking for somebody on the left side of the slash, so that helps. It's like what side of the slash are you on? That that's attributing factor to establishing a relationship. You want to mix with somebody that's uh similar well on the opposite end that you are. So it's like you need a label for that. So how would you? I don't I don't understand. I appreciate the people that can just go out and be like, yeah, not have labels and just kind of find people and like it's developed. It's like, yes, I I get that. Uh that makes sense. Um, for me, I like all the different things, so it's like I um let me know what you're into, at least give me a baseline idea and what role you're you're filling and looking for, because then it's like we can go from there. That's a good starting point. Um, but other reasons that people uh like roles and labels, it's good for role playing, also definitely good for dynamics, uh, especially beyond the physical. So, as a you know what I was saying before is you usually want to find somebody that's on the other side of the slash than you are, uh or just you know, switching or whatever, but labels are a good way of identifying those people, and definitely definitely if you uh decide to do dynamics as well. I oh during my research I did see role-playing. I was like, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. That that's pretty good. Uh, because you in role playing, which I could probably do an episode on that as uh at some point, which would be very nice. In role playing, you want to establish a character. I guess the actual role-playing and character, uh, and everybody needs to fill a role and be identified as as a character. You can't have everybody playing the same role of character, because then that would be um not very it's not even not very creative. It's like that's gonna be a very short scene or whatever you're doing, because it role-playing doesn't have to always be just you know in the BDSM or kink stuff in general. You know, when you go see a play, everybody has a different role or character. Everybody can't be the same exact character, otherwise, that would be a very short uh experience. Interesting. Um but uh roles and labels uh can be defined as uh somewhat of a definition, uh, but they're used to describe your sexual or romantic orientation, bodies, and additional experience with privilege and oppression. Help uh they help people to understand the differences in needs, culture, and personalities. That's like the Webster's dictionary version, and a lot of the articles I saw. That's what the definition a lot of people use to explain what a a label is or a role in uh the BDSM sense. Uh so that's the one I'm going off today,

Role Play Versus Real Dynamics

SPEAKER_00 8:54

going off today with, going with off today, however you want to put it. Uh very broad topic, trying to boil it down into something that people can use. Uh so you the the two examples I used before, role-playing, uh, usually used for the duration of an encounter or scene or play, whatever have you. And then the actual power dynamic is a somewhat permanent fixture. Uh, it's usually the norm because when you get into a dynamic with people, it's usually uh an ongoing experience. You in general have a contract, don't always need that. And your role kind of is established at the beginning and then is the same throughout, uh, with of course uh a few differences in the specific uh in uh relationship, however you want to do, but usually they're fixed when you're in when you're entering a dynamic rather than role-playing, which is usually only for that scene, very limited experience. Uh and then when exploring dynamics, uh the dynamic experience is not meant to be rigid, but it's flexible and meant to adapt. Uh, you can have multiple roles in in the dynamic. So once again, they the dynamic roles don't usually change, but um what once you're like talking about and negotiating, usually they uh uh they're more flexible at the beginning, and then when you know when you're vetting people or um trying them out, potentials and all that. Uh partners should discuss boundaries, limits, and expectations through consent communication and negotiate negotiation. Um so you can build like a trust and a mutual respect um when going into it. But the labels are are good for that. Uh and choosing a label is good because it's essential for the power exchange because defining authority uh and submission is usually the goal of a dynamic. Um helps for clear communication, trust and consent, and then um just remember that BESM is diverse, so multiple labels could mean multiple things depending on the person. And then I know for me, role my roles and labels and how I like to be um referred to changes over the years as I get more information and more experience. So let's just remember that as well. And then also everybody has a different definition. That's a big thing that uh people assume, I guess. It's like you have Dom on your profile. Does that mean you do that all the time? Is that uh all around thing, or is it just for scenes and when you're in the BESM community, or is it like you do that in your regular life? You know, there's there's all different kinds of things. I know for me, like I'm usually dominant, but it's not a choice all the time, involuntarily type of thing, because it's like if nobody else is gonna lead, then I guess I gotta take the role. And it's like, but I didn't really consent to do this with this specific group of people, but I kind of have to because nobody else is doing it. It's like, oh goodness. So kind of develop that persona that way, and now I don't know when to turn it. No. How to yeah, it's interesting to hear people say, Oh, you very dominant personalities, because I had to. It's not really I wanted to, I don't really know how to turn it off now, and it's bled over into the online world, especially with like my profiles. It's like you have a very dominant profile, and it's like that's not really what I'm trying to do because I do identify as a switch and verse, and it's like, yeah, I don't want that to be assumed that I do that with everybody, and switches get hate like that sometimes. It's like I I do switch, but I'm not gonna switch roles with everybody, so like ask me a question. So this is a big motivating factor for me to uh talk about this specifically because it's like stop making assumptions, ask questions. Um, and speaking of labels, in my opinion, can be used to facilitate discussions about connection and compatibility, should not be used to define limits, and there's no like you know, there's no universal agreement on the definition, so like ask more questions. And I'm glad I saw when I was doing my research in a lot of the articles that I came across. It's like a lot of people have the same opinion as well. It's like don't limit your view on somebody because of the labels that they have. It's like ask more questions. This is a good starting point. What does it mean for you to be on the right side of the slash? Do you know what that phrase means? Right side of the slash,

Switches, Assumptions, And Asking Better

SPEAKER_00 13:36

left side of the slash. Do you know the difference between top and bottom or the difference between top and bottom and all the other roles? It's like some of her actions and some of her are like a label, so something you do versus something you're called, uh that type of thing. Do people even understand that? A lot of people, you know, don't top and bottom don't make that distinction. It's like, hmm. Then you decide at that point is like, do you agree to move along with this person or not? Because yeah, you gotta agree. I feel you should agree on the small points, and then you can move up to the bigger ones. But you're not agreeing on the small points, it's like what do you have in common actually? Uh, and then another thing that labels do, they give us words needed to self-identify, um, and then they describe relationships and connections, and you can find communities and places to belong. So that's a um connection thing. Uh uh when you're trying to find your place in life. Uh, if uh I'm a pet player or furry, it's like I'm gonna find furry groups to be a part of because in general that's how I feel. So it's so labels are good in that sense. It's just very interesting when people say I don't like labels. It's like, what do you mean by that exactly? Because that's how we connect with other people. If I'm into comedy and it's like I'm a stand-up comedian connoisseur, it's like I'm gonna go find other people that are into that. I I need that label to identify the other people that have a similar thing with me. Uh, and especially especially communities, everybody has a different way of thinking depending on what they connect with. So, you know, especially like I'm part of the board game community. It's when I talk to people about board games, yeah, different way of thinking. It's it's uh I don't know if it's like a learned skill on how to play board games, but it that changes the way you think, and it's I'd rather I'd like to connect people, connect with people that think in think this similar ways that I do. So you you need labels to uh identify those people. Um group identity labels can be empowering because they enable community building and shared efforts uh for advocacy. I guess that's more like a volunteering type thing. Um, enables people of diverse sexualized genders, bodies, and relationships to communicate uh with solidarity and pride. So in my experience, it seems like when people find their community uh able to gain some confidence and some pride in what they do. Uh, of course, there's a bunch of different one different communities out there, so it's hard to like generalize all of them. But I just know from my experience, when I found my place, especially with like the BDSM community, it's like, ooh, I belong here. I feel better now. I'm more mentally stable and I can talk about this stuff. And it, you know, took me a while to finally um come out as like an educator on the thing just because I had gained so much experience with it and had done research. It's like maybe I should teach other people about this because I see a lot of the same questions over and over again, and like people don't know where to go to get answers because the internet for specifics is just horrible. Um but you can't you can find information. Hopefully, it's mostly correct, but you know, do your do due diligence. As I say again, don't listen to me, do your own research. I know it can be hard to find uh a lot of the times, but that's where you just develop the skill of developing a filter uh of to figure out what's good information or not, and then as long as you're being safe and doing it with somebody that's consenting to it, always try it out for yourself. You know, if you come across a role that you think fits with you, it's like, hey, let me go find somebody else that's into that role or the other end of that role or looking for what I'm relating to at the time, then try that out. Uh, too, to make sure that it fits for you. I'm all, you know, I'm Julius is a big proponent of negotiating, so always negotiate and just say, like, hey, this is something I'm trying out. I think it I feel that I'm this way, but let me know what you think, and then uh I'll, you know, test it out in this one and other things myself to see if it works for me. It's totally something you can negotiate. Practice. People make mistakes, and you know, you recover from the mistakes. It's only a really a bad mistake if you didn't learn from it. Always be uh making sure you take note and try to learn from something um the a new experience. Uh good starting point when speaking to someone new. Um, labels are very helpful with that and not to be used for limiting, and and it's more of a guidepost. So something uh springboard, foundation to start off with. And yeah, roles change over the years as you learn more things. I don't know how many times I can say that enough. People like to uh set you in uh certain place in their minds, just you know, cognitive expedience, and then they like, oh, you weren't that way like two years ago. It's like, yes, it's been two years. You think I didn't learn anything since then? I hope you did. Hope you're a different person since then. So it's like don't limit people to a role that that stuff changes all the time. I know for me, especially the username might change. People are always thrown off by that. I was like, Yeah, it's been like five years I've used that. It stuff has changed since then. That's the kind of thing you do. So I wanted to reiterate again roles and labels are good starting off points, but don't make the assumption that people are gonna stay the same. Change happens, it happens, people. It happens, all right, king campsters. That's a thing that's gonna be a constant. Constant, only constant is change. That's it. Uh labels usually fall into three categories. Uh, they're either given to you, earned within a community or self-designate designated for personal enjoyment, or you can prefer no label at all. I would say given to you, or you choose it for yourself, that type of thing. Uh, depending on what community you're in, the different kinds of labels that are there, you can choose it for yourself. And then um, some some people get it from outside sources or it's earned. And of course, you know, you can always prefer no label at all. I don't want to cast judgment on people that don't prefer labels. Like I said, I'm very jealous of those people that can go anywhere. It just kind of makes my brain hurt when it's like, well, what do you are? I don't, I don't per I don't um identify with anything.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

It's like, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah, I don't like labels, it's just very confusing for me, but I I am very jealous of it if you can go out through your day like that and um life like that, and it still works for you. So, yeah, everybody has choices, and that's usually the categories that uh labels and roles fall into. Um, it's very wrong to have expectations associated with labels. Again, I'm gonna keep saying that. That's probably my number one reason for um talking about this today in this episode. Do not make assumptions, do not make assumptions, expectations so bad, and then uh especially if you're gonna start going down that path, make sure you confirm with the person what does this role label mean to you? Everybody has different definitions. I cannot say that enough. There's like five things I need to repeat over and over again because people make these assumptions. Oh, you're that, that means this, and it's like, no, just because I have sub on there does not mean I'm just gonna let everybody just bend me over and smack me on the ass. That's not how that works, not how that works. First, we need to have a conversation, let's get to know each other, that type of thing. Use and you see that all the time. Oh, you have this as your role, that means this. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How about you ask me what it means to me before you just make this assumption? Terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible. Um, people like to place people in boxes to try and simplify their lives. Like I said, cognitive expedience. All labels have multiple meanings per person, it is a spectrum. There's different meanings to all the different labels. Also, you don't know what experience level that person's in that you're talking to. Let's make sure that you know they're going off the same thing. There's been people that um identify with a certain gender, but then they put the other name, the other say they identify as like male or female, but then you know you have dom versus doma. Uh people like to make that distinction, and then they'll put that on their profile. And it's like, wait, are you cisgendered or transgender? Oh, hey, so you sit, but you know that's for females or males. Do you okay, wait, I'm so confused. Are you exploring the the different gender roles as well? No? Oh, okay. Well, did you know that? It's like, oh yeah, I'm I'm new, I didn't know the difference. And it's like, ah, see, you just learned some more information about that. Person, so it's like, how did you come across that in the first place? Let's talk about that. What does that mean to you exactly? Do you un do you understand the the the words that you put on your profile that you say you identify with that type of thing, you know? And then I know for me that um that lets me see if somebody's being genuine or not, if they're actually doing their research, or they're just kind of just going out there and just slapping stuff on and not seeing how it works. Because you put it on your profile, but you didn't do any research um and then like asked or or asked questions or something. But like I said, everybody makes mistakes, but it helps to know what their authentic authenticity level is. I can say words, so it's a good starting point as far as I'm concerned with that. Um and then yeah, use to clear up misunderstandings and give the heads up. Easier, it's easier to have discussions and feel the need for belonging and give relief that there is a term to describe how you feel. I know for me, especially when I found the word demisexual and the aspectrum in general, and it's like, oh, there's people that are sex averse, turned off completely by the thought of being physically um with somebody else in that sense, in the sexual sense. And it's like, oh my goodness, I relate to these people. I understand now. Open me up to a whole new world. I understand why I don't just want to go out there and get my dick wet uh when talking to people. It's like, oh, oh, this makes more sense now. Okay, I can't hook up with random people, it's not possible for me. This is why. So I once again really enjoy labels for that reason. There's a community out there, and I can get on the Reddits or whatever, and the other people relate to me, and I see all the different comments and stories.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

It's like, oh, I feel you, my friend. I'm the same way. I don't understand hookup

Belonging, Community, And Demisexuality

SPEAKER_01 26:04

culture either. Why would you do this?

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Oh goodness, and especially in the BDSM community, I don't understand pickup play. That's just what why would you do that? Let's have a few drinks, talk about different things. Coffee is a drink as well, so you can do that for the the non-alcohol people, but it's so confusing to me, and now I know why. And uh, there's uh other people that relate to me, so we can all relate together and have these discussions.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

It's okay to be different. You know how that started because there was a label for it, and I did my research and I figured out why. Why is this label here?

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Oh, that makes sense now because that because that, because that. I mean, they really haven't figured out where if it's genetic or like due to your environment, but whatever the reason, I'm I'm demisexual, and that's definitely one of the main uh labels that I identify with and hopefully uh give off, present that way. So, yeah, all those different things. It's very interesting once you get down into all the different labels. And there's so many. I feel like Fat Life it they're just adding more. It's so interesting for me to see. Uh let's see. And then uh labels allow you to tell someone who doesn't know you how you see yourself in the world. I know, especially with my vanilla friends, they're interested slash confused by all the different things, but then once you explain, oh, this is how I am, and there's a name for it, it's like it just makes more sense for people. I think I know it's very uh normal in regular society for people to have relationship labels, you know, girlfriend, boyfriend, that type of thing. Uh it it's helpful for them to be able to understand who you're with and everything. That's the the negative, uh, that's that box I was talking about. Um, it's good that you need something to help you understand, but it's like still ask more questions. Just because I say this person is a girlfriend or boyfriend, it's like what does that mean exactly? Especially if you're in the poly community. Yay, another label. There we go. Completely different for us, what that means. And even in the communities themselves, the different um words have different definitions. Um, so that's why I always want to reiterate always ask questions, have a conversation before you just make an assumption from a label. Because uh hopefully not hopefully, uh at some point in your life, you're gonna come across a community, and hopefully you enjoy being a part of that community. But it's like there's gonna be more questions you're gonna have. You know, you you gotta have some way of jumping off. I kind of lost my point with this little rant that I had. You're gonna be part of a community, and people are gonna make assumptions. Hopefully, they ask you more questions about it, and hopefully you know the those answers as well. But being able to relate to a community is great, and you know, even the the smart people say it, the scientists say it. You have to uh you have to be social, you should be sociable. People that are part of communities and social live longer. That's what the research says. So I know for me, labels and and and roles help me with that to uh understand that. And I feel like in the BDSM community, we have more conversations in general, and then because there are so many roles and labels, there's uh I mean assumptions happen, but more discussion is invoked. Uh, and it's like normalized to have a discussion because that's what that's uh helpful for all the different things that we have. So communities with more roles and labels have more discussions, it seems like, and then um, once again, not j judging anybody, but the people in vanilla world or normies or whatever you want to call them. Uh doesn't really happen because it's kind of assumed because it's the majority. So it's like, oh, okay, we're the majority. We really don't need to talk about this stuff. It's like, but you should still talk about this stuff. This is still a thing to talk about. Hopefully, this episode inspired you to talk more, have a conversation, people, and uh don't make assumptions. Don't make assumptions, not to be limiting, a place to talk about. So I hope I got to uh convince somebody of that, that you know, labels are good for that reason. They spark conversation, if nothing else. Ask a question, you get an answer, and it's always different for other people, so always ask that. Yeah, like I don't I don't understand the thing of like just have a role with somebody, but that should inspire conversation, not just like limit people. It's like, oh, you're that. Like, why would you not ask what that means to that person? It's always different. Like, if you had a conversation with anybody, like their opinion differs, whatever it is, that you know, whatever the popular thing is, there's always gonna be somebody that has a differing opinion. So asking why is a good place to start. All right, so I think I rambled enough about roles and labels. Very uh generic topic to talk about, very much an umbrella thing, but I think I found enough information for this to be an actual uh talking point. Uh the articles I found were very generic as well. It's like I want to know why we have labels. I get why we why labels are good, but it's like why do we have them in the first place? Uh so this might be a topic I talk about multiple times as well, because it's just how the topic is, but I feel labels are good as a talking point, not an eliminating thing. Have more conversations because of the labels. Don't just use cognitive expedience to make assumptions, and they're usually gonna be wrong. They're usually gonna be wrong. Unspoken expectations slash assumptions lead to long-term resentment. I'm going to feel that way and agree with that uh quote for a long time. That's how it is. So let's get more conversation going, people. But, anyways, that's it for now. This is your host, HH Julius, the entertainment creative, also known as the Cuddle Gigolo. Still haven't jumped on that. I should probably get on that at some point. El Comidine, Gerald McBee, Colonel McBee, Major McBee, whatever it is. Jokingly. Uh, this has been the Pillar Fort Sessions of Around the Kinky Campfire podcast. Most of the time, episodes are like every other Thursday. Most of the most of the time, we'll see. Taking a little break for a little bit. Um, the Pillow Fort sessions are in between there, but the regular episodes should be every second and fourth Thursdays of the month. Um, with an asterisk next to that. Available on all major platforms. Uh, please go and uh review, give us those stars if you feel like you enjoy this. But thank you for the people that continue to download, even though we take breaks. I see that on the things and really appreciate that when it happens. But that's all for now. Hello.